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## Pokémon Discussion

### Team size for playing through the game - Page 1

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#### Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: IceFlame
Date: 2016-08-28 18:36:14
This is about the number of Pokemon a player uses in battle, from the start of the game to beating all the in-game bosses.
I've only spent much time on 1st-3rd Gen, and can't really comment on the later ones.
When looking for information about the games, I was amazed at the number of walkthroughs and other advice pages that recommended training 6 Pokemon during the initial play-through. Firstly, they end up under-levelled. Secondly, if carrying them all the time, you need to waste move slots on weak field moves. When playing Sapphire for the first time long ago, I gave up for months before beating the Elite Four, and in retrospect my team was too big. And when asking people if they played the older games back in the day, there were a few who gave up because they were under-levelled and it was taking too long.
Speedrunners seem to play most of the game with one Pokemon - normally the water starter - and in some cases pick up a legendary with the Master Ball. Avoiding as many fights as possible means the Pokemon is not really over-levelled, and advanced tricks are required to handle the bad type match-ups.
In normal play, including catching things, it's helpful to have one with a sleep move and one with False Swipe.
Recently, I've been replaying the older games with teams of 3-4, which seems to give an appropriate level progression if fighting most of the trainers. If I was writing a guide for beginners, that's what I'd put in it.
Of course, unless a team is over-levelled, it needs good type coverage (or advanced tricks). A beginner playing without a guide and trying to choose a team of 3 (and the moves to go with it) is going to have some trouble there.
SHIFT/SET makes a difference too. Probably, SHIFT favours larger teams (as in 3-4; it's still much harder with 5-6) while SET favours smaller ones (1-2). I'm mostly playing on SHIFT at the moment, to make things as easy as possible while I remind myself what's going on after years of absence, and learn my way around in Japanese. If I play again, might try making things harder with SET and/or a larger team, but still don't want to grind for levels.
So, questions: In the older games, do you play SHIFT or SET, what team size do you prefer, and do you need to grind levels (up to beating the Elite Four anyway)? Can an expert play an evenly-levelled team of 6 without grinding? How about on SET?
I read that 5th Gen scales the EXP gain depending on how your Pokemon's level compares to the opponent's level, but this idea was abandoned for 6th Gen. And in 6th Gen, the EXP Share is obtained near the start of the game, and gives 50% of the full EXP to each of the non-participating Pokemon without taking from the participating ones. How do these changes affect the situation?
And does this issue come up in any other popular games? The other RPGs I've played give the full EXP to everyone in the party whether they help or not. Is Pokemon the strange one here?

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Yeniaul
Date: 2016-08-28 19:58:22
For R/B/G/Y->B2/W2 Elite 4/Red/equivalent:
I prefer 6 Pokemon, first 3 being high-level (No "I'm too good for the grind" Rare Candy or EXP Share bullSHIT here) and the last 3 being low-level. I switch to the lows when my mains are dead/low HP and use Revives/Full Restores until they're dead, then I use more Revives on them while the Mains fight. Also gives low-levels I've had since the beginning a use, EVs, AND XP, so… bonus? Also, SHIFT, obviously, as otherwise this wouldn't work.
Also, if you skip the grind, you skip 9/10 of the fun. [sarcasm]What is WRONG with you?[/sarcasm]

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: IceFlame
Date: 2016-08-29 03:28:29

> I switch to the lows when my mains are dead/low HP and use Revives/Full Restores until they're dead, then I use more Revives on them while the Mains fight.

I've done that, but didn't think of it when writing the post. I guess it's not so much about how many are used in battle, but more about how many are high-level.

> Also, SHIFT, obviously, as otherwise this wouldn't work.

On SET, there's still "main dies, send out low-level, use Revive on the main, low-level dies, send out main again".

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Charmy
Date: 2016-08-29 11:06:11
When I'm playing some randomized Pokémon, i mostly have one over-leveled Pokémon + some HM/TM slaves:
Gen 1 - Mostly the starter and high-leveled "legendary" ones.
Gen 2 - Same as in gen 1
Gen 3 - Emerald:Mostly the thing that Rayquaza turned into. R\S:The starter and whatever Groudon\Kyogre turned into.
Gen 4 - D\P:Mostly the starter and whatever replaced Dialga\Palkia.
Gen 5 - B\W:Mostly the starter and one that N gives you before you battle him at his castle, then catch some on post-game routes (level 60 Ralts lul) B2\W2:The starter.
Gen 6 (yes, randomizing this gen is possible):Most are around the same level as my mains. AS:Starter and whatever Kyogre\Rayquaza\Deoxys transformed into. Y:Starter + Other high-level ones you can get.
I also use the rule of:

> I switch to the lows when my mains are dead/low HP and use Revives/Full Restores until they're dead, then I use more Revives on them while the Mains fight.

And i mostly use SHIFT early-game and SET late-game\post-game.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Spoink
Date: 2016-08-29 15:46:42
My party is:
Bulbasaur (Start)
Nidoking (End of Safari Zone)
Some Bird (Fly)
Mew (Don't feel like wasting time to get him before SB [size=8pt]did you just assume mew's gender bro?[/size][size=4pt]sorry[/size][size=1pt]i had to[/size])
A fuckton of glitch Pokémon (Miscellaneous use)

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2016-08-29 17:46:17

> So, questions: In the older games, do you play SHIFT or SET, what team size do you prefer, and do you need to grind levels (up to beating the Elite Four anyway)? Can an expert play an evenly-levelled team of 6 without grinding? How about on SET?

I always play on the SHIFT mode personally, and feel the ability to switch before your opponent sends out a Pokémon is a good thing to have.
I sadly cannot remember the size of my team in past games and I'm not sure if I've ever really ran into a problem with grinding, although a long time ago in one of the games (maybe from Generation III or IV) I remember that my team wasn't strong enough to beat the Elite Four and I didn't have enough money for items.
I think (but don't know for sure), if you end up underleveled one thing that you may be able to try is beat a few Elite Four Pokémon to gradually level up your Pokémon even if you repeatedly black out. This approach may take a long time with relatively weaker Pokémon or if the foe's Pokémon is faster/bulky and has the ability to knock you out however.
You can beat one of the games with six Pokémon without grinding with strategy, but I believe the game you're playing is a big factor, and beating the game with a team of six Pokémon you raised may be easier in games such as Black 2/White 2 (see five paragraphs below).
In my recent replay of Pokémon HeartGold I ended up defeating Lance with the highest Pokémon as level 42 and the lowest at level 36. Some boss trainers (in particular the Elite Four and especially Lance) were particularly difficult and I had to invest my money on a lot of healing items and temporary stat boosting items to beat Lance. Lanturn proved to be a useful Pokémon as did Meganium with the move Reflect (what I did was a little unusual and I gave it a Choice Scarf to outspeed Lance's Pokémon so that it could set up Reflect). Spreading paralysis with a move such as Thunder Wave is good to enable lower level Pokémon to outspeed the foe with a chance of them not being able to attack.
If you decide to spend your money only on healing items/stat-boosting items and avoid buying Poké Balls/buy them only when you need to capture the Pokémon you want on your team this may prove beneficial.
During the HeartGold post-game a lot of things became difficult so I ended up trading a level 65 Togekiss over from another game to make things a little easier and allow other Pokémon to catch up in levels. Even so, the Pokémon in my team during the rematch with Lance after completing the Kanto quest ranged between 54-57 excluding the Togekiss that became level 75.
In this case, raising three Pokémon and taking advantage of being able to use the additional party slots for HM moves might be better for new players of the game like you suggested.

> I read that 5th Gen scales the EXP gain depending on how your Pokemon's level compares to the opponent's level, but this idea was abandoned for 6th Gen. And in 6th Gen, the EXP Share is obtained near the start of the game, and gives 50% of the full EXP to each of the non-participating Pokemon without taking from the participating ones. How do these changes affect the situation?

That's right. In Generation V experience is scaled depending on the difference between the user's level and the opponent's level; additionally in Generations VI the Exp. Share becomes a key item that applies experience to all Pokémon who participated after fainting a Pokémon or catching it as long as you set the key item as on.
I raised a team of six Pokémon in Black 2/White 2 and don't remember the enemy levels being much of a difficulty by the time I reached the Elite Four (although I sadly cannot remember whether they were underleveled or not). Another helping factor is that there are some trainers in the games you can rebattle simply by leaving the route and returning across a range of levels (such as Pokémon Breeder Marcus in Black 2/White 2 on Unova Route 7). Additionally, it's a good idea if you picked Snivy to raise Serperior/Eviolite Servine with the move Coil and Leaf Blade.
Hope that helps, IceFlame!

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Yeniaul
Date: 2016-08-29 20:56:57
Hey, someone else that uses a grass-type starter! I usually pick Bulbasaur in Gen 1 simply because it tends to have better growth rates, even if its stats are lower at start. (One run I got a Bulbasaur to end up with <450 Special because the RNG happened to roll a really high growth rate.)

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: IceFlame
Date: 2016-08-30 19:20:36
Thanks for the replies.
The fastest way to fix my original Sapphire situation would have been to train Kyogre a bit more, as it doesn't need to be much stronger before it can stomp most of the Elite Four by itself. But child logic said "Kyogre is doing OK, so let's train the others" ;)

> Hey, someone else that uses a grass-type starter! I usually pick Bulbasaur in Gen 1 simply because it tends to have better growth rates, even if its stats are lower at start. (One run I got a Bulbasaur to end up with <450 Special because the RNG happened to roll a really high growth rate.)

What's this about? I know a lot about Gen 1 mechanics, and this doesn't sound familiar at all.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Charmy
Date: 2016-09-01 08:34:39

> Hey, someone else that uses a grass-type starter! I usually pick Bulbasaur in Gen 1 simply because it tends to have better growth rates, even if its stats are lower at start. (One run I got a Bulbasaur to end up with <450 Special because the RNG happened to roll a really high growth rate.)

From what i know, speedrunners tend to choose Bulbasaur not because of the growth rates, they choose it for Brock Thru Walls, because the PP is good. :)

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Yeniaul
Date: 2016-09-01 11:10:53

> > Hey, someone else that uses a grass-type starter! I usually pick Bulbasaur in Gen 1 simply because it tends to have better growth rates, even if its stats are lower at start. (One run I got a Bulbasaur to end up with <450 Special because the RNG happened to roll a really high growth rate.)

> From what i know, speedrunners tend to choose Bulbasaur not because of the growth rates, they choose it for Brock Thru Walls, because the PP is good. :)

That's bonus.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Charmy
Date: 2016-09-02 11:26:47
Ok, here's my older Ruby (emulated) team, i sadly lost the current save due to my SD card going thru cancer so… I lost over 20 hours of dex-filling and grinding.
1.Swampert level 83 (was level 100) Male, Item - No, Ribbons:Champion, "Hard Worker", Starter, Hardy, Torrent
HP 296 ATK 203 DEF 186 SP.ATK 172 SP.DEF 166 SPD 147
Waterfall
Surf
Earthquake (1 PP Up)
Dive
Ball: Poké Ball
2.Groudon level 67 (was around 70), Genderless, Soft Sand, Ribbons same as above, Careful, Drought
HP 240 ATK 231 DEF 206 SP.ATK 130 SP.DEF 147 SPD 167
Fire Blast
Fissure
Earthquake
Solarbeam
Ball: Master Ball
3.Blaziken (Name:[glow=red,2,300]SpicyMemes[/glow] level 51 (was 60-70), Male, None, Champion, Quiet, Blaze
HP 173 ATK 148 DEF 90 SP.ATK 143 SP.DEF 92 SPD 90
Mirror Move
Peck
Areal Ace
Blaze Kick
Ball: Poké Ball
Traded to me.
4.Golbat level 38 (was Crobat level 60-70), Female, None, Champion, Impish, Inner Focus, [glow=yellow,2,300]Shiny[/glow]
108 69 69 57 72 84
Leech Life
Wing Attack
Air Cutter
Bite
5.Pikachu level 50, Female, None, Champion, Brave, Static
98 81 46 64 60 92
Return
Thunderbolt
Agility
Thunder
Ball: Safari Ball
6.Tropius (Field Slave), Female, None, Champion, Naughty, Chlorophyll,
106 60 61 57 53 36
Fly
Strength
Rock Smash
Secret Power
I will just "Fix" my progress and fill my dex again (will probably never happen as VBA sucks when it comes to linking) and possibly upload the save file.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Yeniaul
Date: 2016-09-02 14:03:31
Also, why does everyone skip the grind? The grind is 9/10 of Pokémon.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Charmy
Date: 2016-09-02 14:34:04
I actually lost most of my grinding time because I had the older save, the newer one was on a cancerous SD card.
My Swampert was the fist Pokémon that i trained up to level 100.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Yeniaul
Date: 2016-09-02 16:58:27

> I actually lost most of my grinding time because I had the older save, the newer one was on a cancerous SD card.
> My Swampert was the fist Pokémon that i trained up to level 100.

"Cancerous"? If you explain in more detail, and still have the card, I could walk you through treatment and recovery, nice and slow.

#### Re: Team size for playing through the game

Posted by: Bert
Date: 2016-09-02 18:02:46
I prefer to keep my team's levels quite close together, with my starter/whatever my first Pokémon is (I started a Y file with a traded Deino) being the highest.
For example:
Starter/whatever: Lvl. 50
Next Pokémon: Lvl. 49
Next Pokémon: Lvl. 49
Next Pokémon: Lvl. 48
Next Pokémon: Lvl. 48
Next Pokémon: Lvl. 48
It looks nice and organized and they're easier to level up this way because I'm super duper anal about it.
There've been very few occasions where I've used less than a full party. I think I did a FireRed run where I had 5, but I'm not sure. Unless soloing the game with the starter counts (I'm so sorry I killed you 11 years ago level 100 Meganium ;-;) like younger players have been known to do.
Also when a new generation comes out I typically use the version mascot during my first playthrough.
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