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## Debate Wars

### I say we sack them all - Page 1

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#### I say we sack them all

Posted by: Wa
Date: 2009-12-27 01:21:22
As a US citizen, I am disappointed in Congress. All parties are at fault. The Republican party, which is supposedly conservative (the Bush administration's policies do not reflect this), will not compromise. On the other hand, the liberal Democrats can't even make a decision within their own party. Senator Joe Lieberman, an independent, has managed to fuck up the healthcare process simply because people follow him because he can't decide which party to support. On a smaller scale, California still hasn't been able to fix the budget problems, and as a result my counselor at school was laid off and class sizes are larger than ever. I may not be a political analyst or even a high school graduate, but even I can see that this isn't how the government is supposed to work. Perhaps this is a reflection of US citizens, but the people we have elected to represent the various states act like children. I say that we should get rid of the current representatives, since they are obviously incompetent.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Angrysmurf
Date: 2009-12-27 08:13:35

> I say that we should get rid of the current representatives, since they are obviously incompetent.

QFT
They are horrible. Many Congressman also accept bribes from big business to pass bills that aid the companies but make the American public pay more to buy their products. It's awful what US government has descended into.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Zach the Glitch Buster
Date: 2009-12-27 18:26:18

> > I say that we should get rid of the current representatives, since they are obviously incompetent.

> QFT
> They are horrible. Many Congressman also accept bribes from big business to pass bills that aid the companies but make the American public pay more to buy their products. It's awful what US government has descended into.

Its not the U.S. government, its the People of the United States. Don't forget that its the people who elect those who hold power. If we don't like them or how they operate, then we don't, or shouldn't, vote for them. But time and time again we as a country do. That's the reason the country is in such a debacle now. There are a lot of congressmen who don't do their job of supporting the majority of the state and just do what they want. Its the fault of the people for reelecting them again. How's that saying go: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Then there are the congressmen who represent the majority of the people in their state but it turns out that the majority of the people are stupid and uneducated. Because of this dumb people with dumb ideas flood into congress. There are always a few of these people in congress, its how it works, but the number there are now is staggering. That's one of the major things that's crippling government.
The mass majority of the issues in this country come out of piss poor education. Every student in the country needs to take Calculus as a senior in High School but never are they required, or even offered, a class on how to balance a check book or a budget.
There's a hell of a lot more then just that but you always serve the appetizer before the main course.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Ketsuban
Date: 2009-12-28 12:01:13

> > > I say that we should get rid of the current representatives, since they are obviously incompetent.

> > QFT
> > They are horrible. Many Congressman also accept bribes from big business to pass bills that aid the companies but make the American public pay more to buy their products. It's awful what US government has descended into.

> Its not the U.S. government, its the People of the United States. Don't forget that its the people who elect those who hold power. If we don't like them or how they operate, then we don't, or shouldn't, vote for them. But time and time again we as a country do. That's the reason the country is in such a debacle now. There are a lot of congressmen who don't do their job of supporting the majority of the state and just do what they want. Its the fault of the people for reelecting them again. How's that saying go: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Then there are the congressmen who represent the majority of the people in their state but it turns out that the majority of the people are stupid and uneducated. Because of this dumb people with dumb ideas flood into congress. There are always a few of these people in congress, its how it works, but the number there are now is staggering. That's one of the major things that's crippling government.
> The mass majority of the issues in this country come out of piss poor education. Every student in the country needs to take Calculus as a senior in High School but never are they required, or even offered, a class on how to balance a check book or a budget.
> There's a hell of a lot more then just that but you always serve the appetizer before the main course.

Simple solution this.
Abolish FPTP.
Use party-list PR.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Kyoukipichi
Date: 2010-03-20 20:37:18
I think we are in need of more than two parties. It's rather undemocratic if a party is able to nominate anyone it wishes and they have a 50% chance of winning.
Besides, things are always so poor when they have little to no competition.
Yes, I know there ARE more than two parties. But these other parties are so insignificant they can be written off as nonexistent.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Zach the Glitch Buster
Date: 2010-03-30 21:30:57

> I think we are in need of more than two parties. It's rather undemocratic if a party is able to nominate anyone it wishes and they have a 50% chance of winning.
> Besides, things are always so poor when they have little to no competition.
> Yes, I know there ARE more than two parties. But these other parties are so insignificant they can be written off as nonexistent.

The reason that third parties are insignificant is because they are unpopular. The reason for this is that the third parties in America do not line up with many Americans view points. The reason the Republican and Democrats became our two major political parties was because they represent, in theory at least, Liberals and Conservatives. These are two ways of thinking that are always around. Third parties are more specific in their beliefs and so they attract less people.
Also the reason that there is seemingly no competition in politics is not because of a two party system having a strangle hold over the government, its because of a lack of interest on the part of the American public. No one wants to run for an elected office and no one cares enough to really study who their electing into office. Its a popularity contest and it always has been but the issue is this:
Instead of being a popularity contest where popularity is based on how well the government is running, its a beauty contest. Less people care, or even know, about the real issues and look at irrelevant facts to make a decision. Hell, many Americans don't even vote. Why? Because they don't care.
To quote someone who was quoted in MW2: "Americans will cross an ocean to fight a war, but wont cross a street to vote" (Its a paraphrase, whatever, point still stands).
People should really take Zappa's advice.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Chaos
Date: 2010-03-30 22:54:07
We haven't had a good president since Regan IMO.
Everybody blames the Bush Administration, but don't realize that the Obama Administration is making things WORSE!

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Bent`
Date: 2010-03-31 22:04:35

> The reason that third parties are insignificant is because they are unpopular. The reason for this is that the third parties in America do not line up with many Americans view points. The reason the Republican and Democrats became our two major political parties was because they represent, in theory at least, Liberals and Conservatives. These are two ways of thinking that are always around. Third parties are more specific in their beliefs and so they attract less people.

No, the reason third parties are so unpopular is because nobody knows they exist. Of those who hypothetically know of their existence, all vote for bigger parties because they know their small one has no chance of winning.
For a few years I read the newspaper every day. For about six months before and after election time, I never once read about a single third-party candidate. I am the only person I know who voted for a third-party candidate at the last election.
The only candidate who had a chance of making a splash was Ron Paul, and when the Republican Party rejected him he had no chance.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Destinatus
Date: 2010-06-04 09:38:07
Yeah, right now we are waist-deep in political sh*t, all because of a certain someone in the White House. I still don't understand why people support him, even as he feeds us lies! It all comes down to this:
OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Wa
Date: 2010-06-04 12:35:35
Destinatus, why do you and many others hate Barack Obama? What lies has he fed us? I am genuinely interested in seeing your point of view.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Destinatus
Date: 2010-06-04 13:57:34
OK…I'll tell you.
1. He said he was going to lower taxes and take troops home. THEN he sends them in and royally jacks up our taxes!
2. HE. IS. F*CKING. UP. HEALTHCARE.
3. He's completely oblivious to the bribes major companies pay Congressmen (and women) to pass laws to benefit the countries, but damage us!
And 4. He is just plunging our country into more chaos than it was with the former President Bush.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Wa
Date: 2010-06-04 17:00:48
Thank you for those reasons, although it would be nice if you could elaborate on number four.
AN IMPORTANT NOTE TO FUTURE POSTERS IN THIS THREAD:
I originally made this as a midnight, sleep-deprived rant; however, it seems to have spiraled into a major political discussion. As the creator of this thread, I have the power to edit posts within it. Therefore, I mandate one simple rule: If you have an opinion, back it up with evidence or a reason. For instance, if one was to say "I hate milk", something like "because I think it tastes bad" or "because I am lactose intolerant" should be added to that statement. "Because it tastes bad" is also an opinion and cannot be used as support. Please apply this simple rule in a political manner to your posts here, or they will be replaced with a picture of a Bidoof.
Note that this only applies to future posts, not previous ones. Feel free, however, to edit yours to match the current rule.
Any complaints of "You're restricting free speech" or "This is against the rules" will be ignored; 1) if you can't back up an opinion with evidence you don't deserve to participate in a serious discussion and 2) I have checked with an administrator to confirm this.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Zach the Glitch Buster
Date: 2010-06-16 16:26:10

> OK…I'll tell you.
> 1. He said he was going to lower taxes and take troops home. THEN he sends them in and royally jacks up our taxes!
> 2. HE. IS. F*CKING. UP. HEALTHCARE.
> 3. He's completely oblivious to the bribes major companies pay Congressmen (and women) to pass laws to benefit the countries, but damage us!
> And 4. He is just plunging our country into more chaos than it was with the former President Bush.

First off, supporting your statements with some fact could help your argument.
1) First, he actually did cut taxes. 1. Second, Obama is bring troops home. He's pulling out all combat troops. The expectation is that all U.S. combat troops will be out of Iraq by the end of 2011. 2. Now granted, he did put more troops into Afghanistan. It was a troop surge. The strategy was successful in Iraq and the President wants to 'win' the war, not just bail out and leave everything an absolute disaster. (A solid definition of what wining is may not be established but it would involve Afghanistan being somewhat stable and able of fend off terrorist aggressors.)
2) Please, some examples on how he's fucking up healthcare. Because the system as it is now it very fucked up and I would love to know what you think he's doing to make it worse. Health Care reform was already passed and although I don't love the bill, I do support it. Some of the reasons that I support it is because it, within a year, does these things:

> Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick, ending the practice of rescission. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.
> Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

3
3) There not bribes. Our congressmen are not bribed. Bribes are illegal. We have a system in congress that gives lobbyists too much power, I'll say that much. Also, its not like Obama put this system in place. Overpowered lobbyists have existed for years. (Ok, I'm not naive, I know that some congressmen somewhere are getting bribes under the table. But those people who actually take bribes are discovered and then punished to the full extent of the law. Blagojevich anyone?)
4) Vague, nonfactual, and charged by rhetoric. Unless you try to give some facts which support your accusation then I refuse to even consider your statement as valid.

#### Re: I say we sack them all

Posted by: Bent`
Date: 2010-06-17 00:17:12

> 1) First, he actually did cut taxes.

He also raised taxes: on families making over $250,000 and on smokers. What matters is whether you think those tax hikes are worthwhile. (I say no to the first, yes to the second.)

> Second, Obama is bring troops home. He's pulling out all combat troops. The expectation is that all U.S. combat troops will be out of Iraq by the end of 2011. 2. Now granted, he did put more troops into Afghanistan. It was a troop surge. The strategy was successful in Iraq and the President wants to 'win' the war, not just bail out and leave everything an absolute disaster. (A solid definition of what wining is may not be established

I think Ill just stop you right there.

> 2) Please, some examples on how he's fucking up healthcare. Because the system as it is now it very fucked up and I would love to know what you think he's doing to make it worse.

Requiring us to buy insurance from the companies that are ripping us off. By the very act of breathing, I will be required to buy insurance.
This isnt at all like car insurance. I dont own a car, as a lifestyle choice. Hence, no car insurance.
The real solution is not to require insurance, but to reduce the absolutely insane costs of health care. Simple tests should not cost thousands of dollars, but because you cant afford it yourself, everybody buys insurance; because everybody buys insurance, its easy to raise monthly fees a bit to accommodate a big increase in cost of a medical procedure.
The same effect is obvious to a college student. Why is tuition so expensive? Because nobody pays out of pocket. People have grants, they have scholarships, they have subsidized loans. College administrators increase tuition and skim off the top; government obligingly increases the benefits, with the only losers being a) the people paying the taxes (or paying for school without help) and b) the students who continue to have college debt into their 40s.

> 3) Bribes are illegal.

Like that ever stopped anybody.
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