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## Debate Wars

### Best President Ever - Page 2

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#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: Zach the Glitch Buster
Date: 2007-12-15 09:06:57

> The Iraq War = Vietnam, 2.0.

And I can't fully argue whit that. All I can say is that we had legitimate reasons for going to war with North Vietnam. The reason was communism. The major problem was 1) America had never fought in a "Guerrilla war" 2) LBJ sucked as a war time president.
So in Iraq
1) America still sucks at Guerrilla warfare
2) Bush is a C- war time president, but only time will tell if he did the right thing my knocking down Saddam.

> Finally, someone with intelligence in presidents

Just because one person supports you ideas it doesn't mean that there the first one with intelligence.
[size=1pt]NOTE: not calling LedZepplinIII stupid or unintelligent or anything[/size]

#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: Abwayax
Date: 2007-12-15 09:25:02
So we have the right to muscle in on another country's doings and tell them what they're doing is wrong? How would North Vietnam's communism have affected us? Did America have anything at stake in that war? Or do we need to force our "American values" on everyone else (You know, since we invented democracy and all that)?
I'm all for communism, by the way. I think it would be successful if done right (which unfortunately Stalin fell short of doing). But the way you write off "communism" as a rationale for invasion suggests that you don't actually know what communism is, and what you do know about it you got from Cold War propaganda. (The merits of communism warrant an entirely seperate debate thread - I'm just pointing out something somewhat related to the discussion at hand)
Now, the Iraq war. If you're going to say that the reason for the Iraq war was to "fight terrorism", then you probably should produce some evidence that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 (which, if I recall correctly, was the impetus for war). This evidence has never been found, nor has any evidence that Saddam was supplying weapons of mass destruction to these terrorists. Furthermore, "terrorism" is terribly hard to fight (ever try to fight an idea?), so saying we're "fighting terrorism" is technically incorrect - we'd be fighting a specific group of terrorists.
Said group, BTW, has never been proven to have any allegiance to Saddam Hussein.
The fact that any American could believe that "americanizing" other nations by force is a Good Cause sickens me, to be honest. It brings to mind the era of European imperialists, except now we have more effective weapons.
I still stand by Henry Clay, but since he wasn't a president, I'd have to say FDR and Lincoln were both good presidents.

#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: LedZeplin2
Date: 2007-12-15 09:39:55
Unfortuanately, nobody has practiced communism right. I doubt it ever will be practiced propely, either.

#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: Zach the Glitch Buster
Date: 2007-12-15 09:57:39

> So we have the right to muscle in on another country's doings and tell them what they're doing is wrong? How would North Vietnam's communism have affected us? Did America have anything at stake in that war? Or do we need to force our "American values" on everyone else (You know, since we invented democracy and all that)?
> I'm all for communism, by the way. I think it would be successful if done right (which unfortunately Stalin fell short of doing). But the way you write off "communism" as a rationale for invasion suggests that you don't actually know what communism is, and what you do know about it you got from Cold War propaganda. (The merits of communism warrant an entirely seperate debate thread - I'm just pointing out something somewhat related to the discussion at hand)
> Now, the Iraq war. If you're going to say that the reason for the Iraq war was to "fight terrorism", then you probably should produce some evidence that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 (which, if I recall correctly, was the impetus for war). This evidence has never been found, nor has any evidence that Saddam was supplying weapons of mass destruction to these terrorists. Furthermore, "terrorism" is terribly hard to fight (ever try to fight an idea?), so saying we're "fighting terrorism" is technically incorrect - we'd be fighting a specific group of terrorists.
> Said group, BTW, has never been proven to have any allegiance to Saddam Hussein.
> The fact that any American could believe that "americanizing" other nations by force is a Good Cause sickens me, to be honest. It brings to mind the era of European imperialists, except now we have more effective weapons.
> I still stand by Henry Clay, but since he wasn't a president, I'd have to say FDR and Lincoln were both good presidents.

Well finally someone actually answers the question.
First off, I know what communism is, even in its purest form. In its purest form, communism would be an effective government. Sadly communism has never bean, and never will, be in its purest form. People are too damn greedy. They want power. One man controlling all the power in the country is a good idea till he gets drunk and goes and nukes some country for the hell of it. So in realty, unless we have some robot running the government, communism will never work out the way Karl Marx intended. Also we don't know what would of happened if we didn't get involved it the Vietnam war. Nothing could of happened to us, or in seven years they could of developed a nuke and killed us all, we don't know. We went to war because the Pro democracy government of South Vietnam wanted help, and after they asked us, we had almost no choice, politically. Think of this, where in the middle of the cold war, Americas are paranoid about being nuked, and this fear is coming from the communists in Russia. Truman's idea was communist containment. Keeping communism out of other countries to try and suffocate the communism in Russia. Now when China went communist, That through a lot of Americans. So when South Vietnam asked for aid to resist North Vietnam, we had no other options. If we ignored South Vietnam then that would make America seem week. This would lead to people choosing communism over democracy. And everyone should know that you think that what your using is good, and you don't like other peoples versions. Mac Vs. PC? Anyone? So the Vietnam was started by an almost unavoidable chain of events.
Also on the topic of Iraq, I know the reason for going into Iraq were week, and we shouldn't of gone in there. But you cant blame Bush fully. Congress approved operation Iraqi Freedom, by a good amount of votes too. 296-133 in the house and 77-23 in the Senate. So don't get me wrong, I know what I'm talking about.

#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: RPBnimrod
Date: 2007-12-17 22:58:16

> > how the f**k could you think that coke snorting, stuttering, war starting, tax raising, privacy violating cock sucker be the greatest president ever? D:

> Bush is not that bad and it's a Steven Colbert reference.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see that episode.

#### Re: Best Presient Ever

Posted by: RPBnimrod
Date: 2007-12-18 11:35:14

> Who do you think is the best president ever? Note "American" President is what where looking for here. Also I'm not going to make a poll because 42 people is too many.

You spelled president wrong in the title.
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