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Generation I Glitch Discussion

PP (not) Up - Page 1

PP (not) Up

Posted by: James-the-Charizard
Date: 2019-09-29 20:34:46
(Reposted to rewrite it.)

When it comes to certain glitch moves, some when applied with a PP Up, they normally increase PP like an average move (like TM50) but several moves either cant be increased (like TM13) while some can take the item but not increase the PP (like TM01)… What is the reason behind that (if there is one)…?

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: bbbbbbbbba
Date: 2019-09-29 20:40:50
We have discussed about this on the Discord the other day, and we agree that TM01 doesn't get increased PP because its base PP is 3, and 3/5 rounded down is 0. However, we all believe that TM13, a 7 PP move, should be able to take PP Ups as normal. Can you post more details about your experiments?

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: James-the-Charizard
Date: 2019-09-29 21:10:33
Ok, note it was a week or two ago, so details may not be exactly correct.
I tried to use the PP Up on my glitch Pokémon that knew TM13 (specifically it was 0xFA) but when I got in, it wouldn't let me increase the PP anymore, as if I had maxed it out, which I didn't. For the record, the max PP was 7. (The PP Up could work on the other moves I had, which were Ice Beam, Swords Dance, & Horn Attack.)

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-09-29 21:36:51
For me, it lets me use up to 3 PP Ups on TM13, which is interesting our results differ (the TM13 has 7 default PP and does not have any PP Ups applied by default so that isn't the issue(?). Note: Some glitch moves do).

The pattern was like this:

7, 8 (1 PP Up), 9 (2 PP Ups), 10 (3 PP Ups)

The PP Up I used was the 0x4F one. (As the 0x32 one is an unused unusable PP Up)

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: James-the-Charizard
Date: 2019-09-29 21:48:39

For me, it lets me use up to 3 PP Ups on TM13, which is interesting our results differ (the TM13 has 7 default PP and does not have any PP Ups applied by default so that isn't the issue(?). Note: Some glitch moves do).

The pattern was like this:

7, 8 (1 PP Up), 9 (2 PP Ups), 10 (3 PP Ups)

The PP Up I used was the 0x4F one. (As the 0x32 one is an unused unusable PP Up)


I see… I'm going to check and confirm if my results are correct tomorrow, and just for noting, I also used the 0x4F PP Up.

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: James-the-Charizard
Date: 2019-09-30 07:14:51
(Sorry that the image is sideways, I don't know what happened…)

Same result as before for me…

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: bbbbbbbbba
Date: 2019-09-30 12:12:43
I suggest that, after a few basic checks (like making sure the max PP is still 7), you should get ACE and read the RAM directly to see what it going on. You can find the relevant memory addresses by looking up Gameshark codes.

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: TheZZAZZGlitch
Date: 2019-09-30 12:18:39
That's because some glitch moves can have PP Ups already applied by default.

Let's look at a normal move first. It has a base PP value of 0x14, meaning it has 20 PP.
Now, what happens if we increase its PP with a PP Up? The game has to keep track of that somewhere. In order to save space, the highest two bits of the base PP value are used for this purpose, since normal moves would never have base PP above 64.
So after using a PP Up, the base PP byte corresponding to the modified move would change from 0x14, which looks like this in binary:

00010100
(red = number of PP Ups applied, blue = the move's base PP)

Into 0x54 (01010100), to represent that one PP Up was used on the move. Another PP Up would change that to 0x94 (10010100), then 0xD4 (11010100). After that, the game would not allow using more PP Ups.

Now, what happens with glitch moves? Their base PP information is taken from arbitrary data, so their base PP can have the highest bits (blue bits in the examples above) already set by default!
Let's look at TM04. It actually has 0xD2 base PP, which in binary, looks like this: 11010010. So this move has 18 base PP with 3 PP Ups already applied.
That's why no PP Ups can ever be applied to this move. The game thinks that 3 PP Ups were already applied, because the base PP value of a glitch move has the highest "PP Up" bits already set.

Another example: The glitch move TM11 has 0x49 base PP. Converting to binary, we have:
01001001
That means it has 9 PP, with 1 PP Up applied by default. So you can apply two additional PP Ups before the limit is reached.

***

Edit: This explanation is true, but does not really apply here. TM13 has 7 plain PP (0x07), so it should take 3 PP Ups normally. Did you obtain TM13 by leveling up 0xFA, or did you GameShark/edit the move in? How much PP does the move currently have when viewed in battle or in the stats screen?

Re: PP (not) Up

Posted by: James-the-Charizard
Date: 2019-09-30 13:22:28
I got TM13 by leveling up. But I checked the PP, and it was 10… I think I may have misremembered, or something else happened.