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Ideas about science and philosophy thread - Page 1

Ideas about science and philosophy thread

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-02-16 16:44:04
As someone is reported as saying:

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

(not that balancing the two is not important, it may be wise to balance them)

So what ideas have you come up with? :)

1 (I will post more of these if drawn to doing so):

People are keen on the idea causation cannot be violated. However, ideas may come when the opposite is also a different perspective of the same thing. Example: 'time travel to the past does not make sense'; there are multiple solutions that could make it work, one of them that there are many universes and your consciousness (or material (in terms of 'light' and 'matter') form as well) simply enters a new universe and perhaps in that universe time too only travels forwqrd. Another interpretation is that you are 'tranced out' and the ego (as some believe) is just an illusion also that, probably I have a soft spot for, is how travelling near the speed of light distorts both time and space. It may not be that you don't succeed in the travel, but rather your memories and cognitive state are also transferred, hence something mysterious happens like becoming someone or something else/death/(add your idea here if you like)

2. If free will and determinism are equally correct. Take something you love the most like a tasty treat; in one sense your particles made you do it (chemicals and matter in the brain, etc.). In another narrative, 'nobody cares about that', your heart made you do it. Is the 'subjective' heart and 'vacuum' a synomyn? Take the saying '1 plus 1 is 3'. Well if it is 'true' maths is an 'infallible' maxim, this can't be, yet the heart imagines it anyway, and it is 'true' if an equation from the future (+1 again) or 'a friend joins in' applies. Yet we insist time and space are different ignoring some theoretical physics ideas. If vacuums can create matter it says something 'strange'; it's not just random perhaps, but can be analyzed in the future as these things may be integral to time itself (e.g. double slit experiment and wave particle duality might come into this).

It's also thought provoking string theory and quantum stuff may not be what we think of as science (true and set whether you believe it or not), but duality may solve that. Some mathematical equations do in fact have more than one solution if time is not considered possibly.

3. If consciousness and dogma is a type of matter (wave), no matter what; and our perception of nature (while not necessarily true maybe) is that all things change; and balance out, creating an understanding of the opposite (according to Tao culture and yin/yang) you can't for instance stay in one state of mind forever; what if you got hurt? Also pain may be needed for greater happiness in the distant (but not near) future, and the proverb 'pride precedes a fall', as much as we may want to be happy, some believe in that all highs precede a fall. This could explain the phenomenon of evolution, because at one point bacteria were 'weak', at a later point they devloped resistance, and recently antibiotic resistance.

4. If 'time' can be compared to 'memory' in cognition whatever form that may be, and if these are linked. Sometimes (thanks one of my favourite YouTubers Sharkee!) subjectively we experience time slower if in mortal danger. If you were dead you perhaps would remember nothing, however, could time be excluded? To stretch that further do you truly ever forget? Some near death experiences report a mutual understanding of all souls and extreme knowledge, and I wonder whether time no longer occurs if we're dead, it then doesn't necessarily mean we know nothing just have no recollection if we are reborn in whatever way.

Thanks: News Scientist and spiritual circles who I've read a lot from, despite how I personally think New Age Movements and religion can (but it depends) be 'dangerous'. Also my sociology teacher. But I'm in no way wise.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: ISSOtm
Date: 2019-02-17 05:25:56
Traveling to the past (or the future, for that matter) is impossible anyways due to violating the principle of conservation: if you exist at a moment T and not anymore at T+1, then the universe lost mass out of nowhere. (Additionally, if you didn't exist at time T but did at T+1, then suddenly the universe would have gained mass.)
The only possibility I see to travel through time is to have "inverse" causality from the very beginning, ie. go backwards in time, but from the very beginning.
I'm unsure how well this would work with our (mostly?) causal (again, from our point of view) universe. The more I think about it, the more awkward it seems.

Maybe free will doesn't exist, we don't really know. Here's an example: take any RNG running on a computer. It's fully deterministic, as TASes prove it time and time again, but humans can't comprehend it and so call it "random". It's not impossible that everything works in 100% deterministic ways, but since we can't wrap our heads around it - and legitimately, as it's a problem so complex that an entire universe is needed to run it - we call it "random", "free will", etc. On the other hand, quantum physics have a share of random in them, and maybe why things act consistently most of the time is because at such a large scale, outliers tend to blend in the mass. And "irrational decisions" (not behaviors!) could be explained the same way as rolling a fumble on dice.

Just to say, waves are not matter.

Experiencing time "slower" is when your brain focuses on something intensely, recording much more information about it. Usually information goes through the filter of our consciousness, and some things are dropped entirely to avoid being overrun with stimuli. Such situations causing "extreme knowledge" sounds more like the brain is thinking intensely, giving off a false impression. As for forgetting, memories are simply connections between neurons - so that when you remember about something, which activates the corresponding neuron, it also activates other neurons, which the memory "links". Example: when you remember about that dinner with your SO, the neuron representing your SO will activate, which will also send impulses to the neuron representing their parents, who were there as well, and so on.


Overall, I find most of what you said to be… out there. I don't mean to be offensive, and also there is some definitive truth in what you said, but I guess I just don't share the same vision of things..?

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-02-17 06:11:50
Awesome post. I haven't processed some of it yet, but I may come back to analyse what you said later.


Overall, I find most of what you said to be… out there. I don't mean to be offensive, and also there is some definitive truth in what you said, but I guess I just don't share the same vision of things..?


It's OK.  :)

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Sherkel
Date: 2019-02-17 11:52:45
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

Story of my life. Perfectly said.

I don't think this is the best place for me to go into further depth on that, and where that would overlap with "ideas about science" is a bit vague and could derail it into Debate Wars, but I'm always open for PMs for anyone interested.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-03-31 18:26:16

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

Story of my life. Perfectly said.

I don't think this is the best place for me to go into further depth on that, and where that would overlap with "ideas about science" is a bit vague and could derail it into Debate Wars, but I'm always open for PMs for anyone interested.


I relate with that. Like the people who say "there's no point in video games they don't contribute to society", well we also like to dance and play sports, not consciously because they coordinate particles in the brain but for the ritual, the 'spirit' and 'fun' of it; which while on one hand are 'superficial' on the other hand adds meaning to life.

I have given birth to a intuitive thought aww hello baby thought.

So it regards the concept of superposition. Basically in this sense that two conflicting forces combine. With waves, when two waves combine the sum of amplitude take place and manifests: if one wave is at its peak and the other is at its troth they will combine to make a wave with less amplitude; like this.

[img]http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/superposition/interference.gif[/img]

Now, consider someone talking while you are listening to music. You can choose to either listen to the music or what they are saying; if you decide to 'step out' and just relax (into maybe what we call 'default mode' though the meaning is actually a lot deeper) then the music and the conversation seem to merge a little. However, if you wanted to listen to what they are saying the words would be louder and if you wanted to listen to the music the words would be quiet/or I guess if they said something like "you're going to die!" it would very likely be louder.

This is what 'free will' is maybe; conscious channelling. And when you drag it down to its components, the line begins to blur (here I can't elaborate on what I drew but I'm drawn to say for whatever reason, perhaps because time itself is part of reality things can't truly be objective, as it's not a fair test if time is constantly changing too):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/QyYbY6v.png[/img]

It goes deeper as well. Whatever you consciously choose to believe or even consider, appears to become embedded into the subconscious mind. If you have ever experienced mental illness/psychosis like I once did, you may relate with the idea of synchronicity. When you begin to believe the supernatural or the imagination (whether it be from OCD's unwanted thoughts/pseudo-hallucinations or a phobia or anything) is true (or by extension: anything not proven by empirical/reasonably objective analysis), your mind begins to filter out what seems relevant and what is not. From my own subjective experience, even though an answer would be to just "not believe in it" and "be rational", though it sounds counterintuitive I think (then again I may be wrong, see what I mean?) there is a pattern in psychology that those who experience psychosis are actually among the most insightful. But no matter how hard you try you start seeing the same and same synchronicities; you try to keep an 'open mind' but they won't stop and it begins a vicious cycle.

I wonder if very well you gather these 'cognitive bias particles' in your mind and they could for instance affect the environmental noise used in tarot cards. If so, its not necessarily that an angel is there but is a reflection of what you are suppressing.

My other interpretation of this is related to how drugs such as opium make you euphoric. Perhaps happiness or neutrality correlates with open minded thinking; yet it is not necessarily well-being. Indeed those very medications people say usually make you hallucinate, with experiences differing based on the individual.

Thoughts? As with science, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Occam's razor says when you make a new theory its wise to not make too many additional assumptions. I'm not an expert in physics so let me know what you think if you like (I'm likely hilariously wrong here).

Ah, also a thought regarding faith. Whether we like it or not we all have some kind of faith, let's say language. We were taught as children that for instance the word "dog" means an animal. Its not just a collection of pixels. Likewise :) is read by the mind as a happy face. At a very early age, we probably choose to consider that "dog" (the collection of pixels) actually means the animal and that the positioning of ":" and ")" means a happy face/or a physical smiling face indicates that the person is happy (note I've read people believe a smiley face in apes actually indicates a "fear grin", see how cultures vastly differ). This creates a 'negative' side effect, namely ego and pareidolia.

Also prayers and affirmations, they're two sides of the same thing. An affirmation is forced faith (like "I will do this") while a prayer is more passive (like "God will make me do this"). From a cold point of view, perhaps the latter is attracting the peak of the wave from someone who also found reconciliation from the same thing and a God does not (necessarily) exist, (but might). Einstein is said to have historically dismissed the concept of quantum entanglement as "spooky action at a distance", but maybe it's true. I also remember someone said to me regarding prayer to God working for me something like 'was it really something psychological?' so yeah in a sense it may have been just placebo.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-06-02 12:58:51
Thought you may want to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ys_yKGNFRQ

(^ Please note, this video is credited to The Slow Mo Guys, not me)

(My hypothesis: The more we want to know the bigger telescope or eye we need, but the definitive truth is beyond human comprehension because the brain has limited power (that evolution accumulates). So maybe it's not that the future influences the past; moreso we are just blind).

Ideas:

There have been two ways of surviving, of which modesty always wins.

Method 1:
Receptiveness (what has been labelled as "anima"). Buddhas are good at this. Receptiveness allows us to find ancient truths (good feelings count as this too), but blinds us in other senses. If you have ever fallen under psychosis like me, you may know what I mean; we are very insightful about matters regarding the self; but not so much in touch with reality. Receptiveness is farmed by 'default mode' (analogy) or sleep.

Receptiveness may be the very way to breed inspiration. You can also awaken it with music, certain foods/drinks if method 2 proves too hard.

Method 2:
Analysis (what has been labelled as "animus"). It is labelled as "suppression", "toxic masculinity" but is highly useful; those words have negative connotations (analogy of 'bad karmic particles'; so I don't suggest calling them this; more-so don't call it suppression; call it "focus"; using up your energy rather than preserving it). Analysis allows us to see the rational truth. Excessive analysis however can lead to death. Death as an analogy is not just the material process of dying; if you are depressed this way you may have feelings of distrust and attract negative influences.

A wise way is to balance both of them. This is why we sleep; to preserve energy and slightly bias the brain.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Sherkel
Date: 2019-06-03 04:53:14
"Receptiveness" is what I generally call "intuition", but I agree with everything you've said there. (Haven't seen the video yet, though.) I consider "modesty" quite the opposite of both opening up to intuition and exercising analytical thought, as quite simply it's the belief that you can't…but presumably you mean something else by it. It's good to see I'm not the only one around here who's developed a perspective like this, even if you're still stumbling between one and another. I could go further into why in my case, but it's much more been a series of "why not?"s than that.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-06-03 08:31:52
Mm. Actually "no one knows the father except the son and no one knows the son except the father"; that receives through my heart; it's just a parable because words are words, its what comes out no the other way round that counts. Even physical Jesus is a parable for love, humble and what we don't and will never see.

For example; Shiny hunting; a guy who hunts for Shinies 1,000,000 SRs and reaps the reward. A guy tells you to quit hunting Shinies after that; we may 'retire', but if we have a change of heart we may continue. Yet then he has a child and the child wants their Shinies. He ultimately has to give up if he is to follow Jesus, but the word said there is a price for following Jesus I'm afraid.

You can tell me more here if you like.

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Sherkel
Date: 2019-06-03 13:10:36
We do seem to diverge quite a bit in this area in the end. What I'd take from that quote is that there's a limit to self-awareness, as there is to any awareness (what can be known through science, for instance, to connect to the original topic). A father might be able to notice things about their son that the latter can't see, and vice versa. The fact we all see things differently to some degree is why I'm wary of any prescribed doctrine, unless maybe someone decides to follow one out of their own volition.

I can connect it to shiny hunting too, come to think of it! I'll always tell anyone that they can save a lot of time and effort while gaining new knowledge by going straight to the core mechanics and RNGing them instead, but don't have a moral obligation to somehow force them to do that, and see value in soft-resetting in that every approach has its own upsides and downsides. Part of me will internally facepalm when I see someone spend 10,000 SRs hitting a seed and/or frame window that could be reached very easily when approached directly, but I do have to remind myself that the thrill they feel is real, and they might have made some memories from being so immersed in the experience.

Not sure what else I might want to add. To use a broad generalization, I don't feel that there's a moral obligation to do or not do anything, just that there are always consequences. Not ones set down by a capricious deity, though, just that exist. The limits in the epistemology of science were one of the first things that came to mind back when I first wondered what I really believed, hence why I mentioned it here as that seems to be an entrypoint for a lot of people.

Re: Ideas about science and philosophy thread

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-06-25 14:59:12
Note: This gets deep, I just however think we should look on the bright side of life and enjoy every moment. :)

Different personal suppositions about the purpose of the universe;

1. The universe purpose is adaptable for each person; that way if they have a God (or a form of spirit; agnosticism and the belief science is all counts too) it will manifest psychologically like a self-fulfilling prophecy

2. The universe was the invention of a deity, but that deity does not 'fight against evil'. The purpose may not be what we consider 'human'. The deity may even want to create suffering.

3. The universe was the invention of a deity in harmonious emotional interest (that is: all conscious things will find love). If so, perhaps there is some kind of war going on that we just can't grasp. Suppose Christianity is true (though I relate with its parables I'm agnostic about the miracles and science says they are unlikely), then Satan is a manifestation of the unknowable; the fruit of knowledge of good and evil being a parable; that in thinking about evil it manifests.

Elaborations: Is permanent love really love? People talk of heavens, but from a different perspective it may be a selfish thing (one man's meat is another man's poison). The God therefore may not be just a God of grace, but also a God of work; creation as not from nothing but us as the creators in suffering but creating energy to share and love even in hardship.

4. There is no God or purpose, yet 'reality' is a strange mathematical hologram - i.e. we just encode/imagine everything in different ways - the 'paradox' is stuff like "if a tree branch falls from far away did it make a sound?". I guess too, when you answer the phone it isn't (technically) the other person; it is an illusion caused by sound waves of the other person; we just however do know it's the other person based on faith - now say there was an electrical interference, it becomes harder to know whether say it was just rain outside or electronic noise. Furthermore it is like: sound only exists if you have an ear and is only encoded in a certain way, the same for sight/eyes, touch/central nervous system (Picalt argues evolution is like flash RAM; like the 'selfish gene' we tend to copy the same means of encoding things if human - i.e. human DNA) and some animals seem to have senses or degrees of senses we don't (bird navigation, certain sea creatures that see colour better than we do). This links in with the idea of qualia; how do you describe colour in terms of logic, you can only go so far (like: "my eyes say it is brighter").

Because logic is apparent if it is fool-proof (which to stretch to an extreme may not even be true (metamathematics) but like science just happens to work); then when we say "something from nothing", it is technically possible. It's just that nothing is a combination of positive (+) and negative (-) permutations. (Which could explain the existence of anti-matter), however, are these a set of finite permutations, or is it like +infinite or -infinite (is the latter a contradiction?… not sure). However, the very fact that logic is producible raises serious questions about the nature of reality too; perhaps that everything is part of a divine plan, but the knowledge of it is not ours to keep (yet); there could be for instance a meta-logic system (something that explains the cause of logic being identifiable), logic world could be a simulation and so on - however, in saying that my argument too does not hold much weight because I may be describing logic in terms of logic itself, and the way I did could be proven wrong if meta-logic exists. Additionally, there may be the idea that logic requires existence (1+1=2 only makes sense if real material things or concepts exists), so in that sense existence came first; logic is just an illusion created by language.
–This goes even deeper to stereotypical absurd lengths too. In defining language, we may say words/grammar/body language/etc. but by extension feeling and emotions are spiritually language, and by deeper extension consciousness in relation to material. Is the world itself "a delusion" as Einstein supposed? People associate delusion with illogical beliefs, but how do we objectively know for instance the laws of physics could not change at any moment, making a lot of scientific endeavours of the past less objective as before. Some call this the cycle of life and this could extend in unsettling ways: truth is found, dies, is found again, dies. Or rather it could all just be human error - that because our senses and cognition is limited we don't know the full truth (yet) if it exists.

5. If nature has all of the answers, what nature is not is what it is labelled. "To live in accordance with nature" is what a philosopher said. In other words, there are no rules; it is anarchy - at the same time we have a heart and care (for at least what we see as love).

Perspective 2:

Suppose there is a God, we commonly suppose God is perfect in everything; yet there is suffering. Could God however be imperfect? We may find this uncomfortable, but in keeping open minds and experiencing constant love/fear we can escape dogma. At the same time, definitive truth may be seen as illusive yet science has been revealing more and more (not through dogma but through deductive reasoning; which is empowering because when we are wrong about science we are humbled). When I ventured into spirituality, I remember the analogy of a broken mirror. We are together, all God, but must reach out in an effort to rebuild the mirror. We don't know whether all pieces will come together, but the finding of speed of light being a constant and Einstein's relativity (so assume you reached close to the speed of light; external time around you would speed up exponentially; if all time is lost, then maybe you reach full unconditional love/is love really free energy?) raises some serious questions. (However objectively we do not know whether the speed of light is a constant even in a 'vacuum': first what is really a vacuum? second do the same laws of physics apply beyond the observable universe?). This links in with deism; that what we call 'God' is the universe; all of us. Does the universe ever end though? Just like an oscillating wave, the God could return cycles of death and rebirth. We do not know the true nature of time, and if it is possible to be linear but not at the same time (like many worlds theory; we reach abstraction at this point - e.g. does the 'essence' (ki) determine the material or does the material determine the 'essence' and do we have free will, is all determinism, or both?) whether time travel to the past is possible. An uncomfortable supposition is that physical death does not send us to the future, but back to the past, where we are born as someone/some other animal/or even (based on Native Aboriginal philosophy) objects; because they believe reality is dream time, else.

Re: Ideas about science and philosophy thread

Posted by: Sherkel
Date: 2019-06-30 12:10:39
None of those are mutually exclusive if reality is God thinking about itself.

Re: Ideas about science and philosophy thread

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2019-06-30 12:45:49

None of those are mutually exclusive if reality is God thinking about itself.


Nice idea. :)

Re: Ideas about science and philosophy thread

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2020-03-04 05:19:01
Prayer affirmation and faith are not necessarily magical; they're more like HRAM. By Heisenberg's uncertainty principle; full knowledge is impossible; only pieces of it, yet scientific method gives more accurate. The trouble is; in order to test relativity of space time more information is needed taking more time?

Re: Ideas about science

Posted by: Torchickens
Date: 2020-03-07 23:49:32

Traveling to the past (or the future, for that matter) is impossible anyways due to violating the principle of conservation: if you exist at a moment T and not anymore at T+1, then the universe lost mass out of nowhere. (Additionally, if you didn't exist at time T but did at T+1, then suddenly the universe would have gained mass.)
The only possibility I see to travel through time is to have "inverse" causality from the very beginning, ie. go backwards in time, but from the very beginning.
I'm unsure how well this would work with our (mostly?) causal (again, from our point of view) universe. The more I think about it, the more awkward it seems.

Maybe free will doesn't exist, we don't really know. Here's an example: take any RNG running on a computer. It's fully deterministic, as TASes prove it time and time again, but humans can't comprehend it and so call it "random". It's not impossible that everything works in 100% deterministic ways, but since we can't wrap our heads around it - and legitimately, as it's a problem so complex that an entire universe is needed to run it - we call it "random", "free will", etc. On the other hand, quantum physics have a share of random in them, and maybe why things act consistently most of the time is because at such a large scale, outliers tend to blend in the mass. And "irrational decisions" (not behaviors!) could be explained the same way as rolling a fumble on dice.

Just to say, waves are not matter.

Experiencing time "slower" is when your brain focuses on something intensely, recording much more information about it. Usually information goes through the filter of our consciousness, and some things are dropped entirely to avoid being overrun with stimuli. Such situations causing "extreme knowledge" sounds more like the brain is thinking intensely, giving off a false impression. As for forgetting, memories are simply connections between neurons - so that when you remember about something, which activates the corresponding neuron, it also activates other neurons, which the memory "links". Example: when you remember about that dinner with your SO, the neuron representing your SO will activate, which will also send impulses to the neuron representing their parents, who were there as well, and so on.


Overall, I find most of what you said to be… out there. I don't mean to be offensive, and also there is some definitive truth in what you said, but I guess I just don't share the same vision of things..?


Thanks. I watched a Vsauce video; it says the mind lives slightly in the past ~80 milliseconds but the world does not. I do genuinely wonder if we got it all wrong due to human arrogance; we don't travel to the future, we travel back in time to matter (ROM) but as for consciousness; it gets more loving and that matter we eat is annihilated into pure energy (it's unsettling, but the Sioux believed everything has consciousness; even say a chair? - which is an important lesson not to worry too much, just follow the flow - however a chair doesn't have organs so won't see in theory; it might feel quite at peace but might feel some really otherworldly pain deep down). I don't discount eventually we will be infinite love, but then you run into measuring infinites; in other words, do what you want, but if it's wrong you create a bad world; but materialism won't bother you ever again - it humbles you and you create a new universe to patch your mistakes. That can be why we start worrying more easily (however what we perceive is all just an illusion) yet experience prepares us for it. The gradient might be based on our DNA (but like Tao philosophy); the outer than represents what we feel (or can analyse by science); depends on how you interpret it, but is not really the truth (in other words, things can exceed c 3x10^8 ; it's relative to time as well; dark matter is really something our eyes can't perceive yet), hence why the universe from our eyes appears to be expanding away from us. Humans might evolve too and the brain might lag slightly behind this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTOODPf-iuc Of course, this argument is void unless someone tests it. You can learn all this easy by opening your heart (took me 10 years. This lead to me well.. not getting in touch with reality which is scary; but am healed now). I learned the hard way but, tell someone "open heart"; they'll have different interpretations so it will only work for a limited time - suppressing is not necessarily suppressing; it can also be focus. You've always got to believe in what matters to you the most; it's testing but worth it. However, I gave up at some point and Jesus served me ever since - yet there's a cost to that; follow too much become a dog (God reversed), or follow too little you start getting vanity, pride, all that stuff which is never the answer. Again though, the heart always wins; in a gist - we do what we want, but not try to hurt each other. Sometimes it's always a gamble, but it's like if someone argues it's sometimes healthy to let it flow over your head and forgive later. Also very important; if you're a Christian too don't let anyone say you're not as he says "whoever is with me is not against me", on the other hand I don't know but it's a reliable way as you get into your head someone who died to save humanity. Ah we also have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jkV4BsN6U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45Q1_psDqk "If something is not settled by experiment it is not worthy of debate". This may sound like a contradiction; but really with quantum physics you need to actually prove its reliability through a revised scientific method whatever that is. Do greater truths take more time?/Quantum particles require more work to find and only last a while.

^ Note we all have uncomfortable thoughts regardless of who we are. Sorry, sometimes I can't cope and go yandere.